Alliances - Helpful or Hurtful?

[Jim Casey]

Originally posted by DJKoolSkip@Aug 19 2005, 05:50 PM
You now, guys........they fight like this on DJChat.

I came here for something different. I guess not, huh?

djskip [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]

Skip...
I try very hard to be different. I was away for most of the weekend and am just now getting here to clean up the rest that Jam hasn't already:

OK...

I've seen enough.

I am sorry that I missed what was going on over the weekend being away at a wedding 180 miles from home (yes I posted, but didn't read other threads)

[Jim Casey]

We are starting fresh...

Only post based on FACTUAL information...

Here is a summary of where we are:

The ProDJ-ADJA-Discjockeys.com-DJ Intelligence alliance is IN FACT an alliance (their words)

The WeDJ-NAME-Fame DJ School alliance is more of a marketing agreement where NAME and Fame DJ School do NOT have to exclusively market WeDJ (go to www.djkj.com and find links to Pro DJ and DJ Chat there - but not ONE to DJ Source Online...LOL)

The premise was to investigate whether we think the alliance(s) help or hurt the industry.

Now...you may continue.

Strong opinions are good...back anything you say with FACTS!

[djdonny]

Again, just adding to the facts, I would add MakesParties to the alliance...

ProDJ-ADJA-Discjockeys.com-DJ Intelligence-MakesParties

To put my two cents in, I was a long-time customer of Ryan's hosting services until more affordable options became available, and have always found him to be an upstanding and supportive person. I told him just this past week (at AC) how disappointed I am that so many members of this industry take sides between the two "alliances" and atttempt to throw stones from the trenches any chance they get.

I'm also an ADJA member, advertiser on Discjockeys.com, and a one of the top affiliates all-time with MakesParties. I'm also a WeDJ advertiser and former NAME member (though very briefly). I try to ignore the politics and see the products and services for what they are.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
MakesParties and DJ Intelligence join forces!
MakesParties.com, the largest Affiliate Program offering party supplies, and
DJ Intelligence, Inc., a leading provider of online event planning tools for DJs, have created a new feature to offer to your clients and earn extra money.

DJ Intelligence enables DJs to integrate a complete online event booking and planning system into their existing website. Clients can check the DJ's availability, obtain a price quote, book their event online, search the DJ's music library, fill out customized event planning forms and timelines, make secure credit card payments, and much more. DJ Intelligence works with any existing website, is fully customizable, and easily installs in minutes.

The new DJ Intelligence - MakesParties relationship enables subscribers of DJ Intelligence to integrate their MakesParties party store into their website using the client event planning area of DJ Intelligence. This means that clients will be able to purchase party supplies while using the DJ's online interactive system when they are planning details of their event. This puts the DJ's MakesParties party store in front of their client at the exact right moment. This dramatically increases the likelihood that clients will purchase party supplies in the DJ's MakesParties store - compared to a basic link on the DJ's website. The DJ's party store is fully integrated into the event planning area, and it is completely seamless to the client, accessible by a single click.

This co-branded marketing concept was conceived over a year ago by ProDJ.Com who works with both businesses through its EZDJWebsites.Com program and other hosting clients. EZDJWebsites.Com allows an average DJ company to build a professional website in minutes, optionally integrated with DJ Intelligence tools and the MakesParties Affiliate party store.

To learn more login at MakesParties.com
and click the Affiliate Resource Sites link under Affiliate Services. [/b][/quote]

[Free DJ America]

Fact: I still don't think that we have solid evidence of there actually being a plane that hit the Pentagon, or crash landing in Pennsylvania.... Oops that's not what we were talking about [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] sorry...

How'd that L shaped gig go anyway Jim?

[Free DJ America]

Originally posted by Jim Casey@Aug 22 2005, 09:17 AM
We are starting fresh... Only post based on FACTUAL information... Strong opinions are good...back anything you say with FACTS!

Well... I think most who have read my posts here or at other forums know above all I try to be diplomatic. Opinionated perhaps, but I try to stay on track. The first thing I noticed about the letter was this quote "ProDJ.Com is the "Internet’s Source For DJs" serving the disc jockey industry since 1995 "

Keep in mind, I'm not mud slinging at ProDJ, as a matter of fact I have a lot of respect for Ryan and the crew. As one who offers a similar service, I know all too well how tough it is growing, serving and making it worth everyone's time and money. I can only imaging what it must have been like trying to get people to sign-up for Internet Advertising when the Yellow Pages were still the rage.

Here's the thing though... You can go to: http://web.archive.org/web/*http://prodj.com and according to that ProDJ has been around since the end of 1996, (basically since 1997). That's a full 2 years less than the claim in the letter. Any insight?

I edited this post by adding the following, (more facts):

The letter claims that "brides & party planners use the DiscJockeys.com directory thousands of times daily to search for qualified DJs in their region" but when I check another source, their site does not even have a traffic ranking: http://www.trafficranking.com/mainframe.htm ... Wouldn't a site with thousands of daily visits from brides at least have a traffic ranking?

Another fact... While we are all aware that a few sites work pretty consistently, like mine of course [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] and obviously WeDJ and ProDJ - according to my most recent survey, http://www.freedjamerica.com/files/FDJA_Su...Summary_188.htm DiscJockeys.com must fall into the "other" category which has poor feedback results. As a matter of fact, In my line of work I have to know what's going on with the other DJ sites when it comes to search engine rankings. That company DiscJockeys.com has never been on my radar screen. I truthfully did not know they existed until this letter came out. So my question/comment is "how good can this directory REALLY be?

Now... Based on FACT, (or at least a reasonable facsimile of it), I have disproved at least 2 maybe 3 claims in that letter. So... How trustworthy can this new alliance be? Can it really "advance the DJ industry by offering the very best in products and services for disc jockeys"... Or is it just a business plan to try to drum up interest in another DJ Directory?

Based on my own experience with Ryan... (choosing to limit networking with FDJA because he considers my site to be competitive - flattered as I was, I did not consider my site to be any competition)... Why are they touting a relationship with another DJ Directory? If ProDJ really wanted to accelerate the growth of their directory or make it more visible on the Internet, why not choose a stronger alliance? Comments? am I totally off base here and completely wrong or is there truth to what I just said? Most of you have more experience with these people and sites than I do.

Last edit I promise:

I had to look at the ADJA paragraph a little harder. Here's the quote "Nobody offers more opportunity for the working DJ than the ADJA"... I certainly don't want to bash this organization, (which also looks like it's been on the Internet since 97), but in my opinion, this is a really bold statement and sounds more like marketing hype than reality. You guys are DJs... Is this statement true? I have talked to gobs of seasoned, experienced DJs who never were part of the ADJA and did not indicate any need for it. So... While I certainly appreciate the fellowship of local chapters and the benefits that networking on a personal level has, do you suppose this statement holds any weight in today's DJ market?

Darn!!! Last edit I swear.

I'll just put in my two cents about the other alliance partners, (based on fact). DJIntelligence does make a kickin' music search / list tool. I've never use the other features, but if they're as good as the music list part I'm sure they rock. Scott K has a very sharp business mind, is agressive yet down to earth and I'm sure would benefit any organization.

MakeParties is a great idea. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I have promoted it heavily on my site for at least two years but have earned very little in commission. The downside to it, is that Google is allegedly beginning to penalize sites for linking to cookie cutter affiliate websites.

Both of those features add value to party planning clients and a chance for increased revenue for the DJ... Make up your own mind about how valuable they are as a package combined with the ADJA, ProDJ, DiscJockeys...

[Jim Casey]

Hey Todd...

In Ryan's defense, archive.org oly hit major sites way back in the day. I do believe he has ben around since late 1995

My personal experience with Ryan has been testy at best. As for prodj.com as a directory, it has been a joke as long as I can remember (at least for the state of Maine)

I believe that is why he has hooked up with discjockeys.com (although I am puzzled because I know I got ZIP in my one paid year with them)

[davergr]

Just the facts, man! The domain name prodj.com was first purchased Oct. 29, 1995. IF they went on line with the site that same day then they are technically correct.

But it takes a while to get out there and have visitors. So it's probably safe to say they have been viable since 1996.

Either way, I think this is a nit picking issue. The bottom line for any web site is, does it do what it is intended to do...get business.

(Aside to Jim...does this board send emails after you post to it when someone replys? I haven't gotten one yet.)

[Professor Jam]

I rememer back then when we all chatted on the Mobile Beat forum.. It was the Wild-Wild-West and at the point Mobile Beat said forgetaboutit the closed the forum and gave ProDJ as the site for everyone to go... I don't remember who all was in charge back then but Glenn Miller was some how...

[Free DJ America]

Originally posted by davergr@Aug 23 2005, 07:36 AM
prodj.com was first purchased Oct. 29, 1995. I think this is a nit picking issue. The bottom line for any web site is, does it do what it is intended to do...get business.

Davergr - True, A website needs to "do what it's intended to do"... But regarding the Topic, I'm not sure what level of analyzing or nitpicking is the right amount when it comes to a question like the one Jim posed. And perhaps this thread has run it's course, but personally I thought it was a good one. The whole issue of alliances has probably been on at least a few DJs minds ever since the emails from these orgs and companies started earlier this year.

For me, it was a big topic. While a single part time DJ or even a full time DJ company may not feel the impact alliances have, any web-based industry service will stand up and take notice, or those DJs who are in "other" orgs which rely on membership and Internet exposure may also take notice. PLEASE FORGIVE ME IF THIS NEXT THOUGHT IS DEEP....

It's possible that these alliances might produce consequences which we don't know will be positive or negative for us. Let's just say hypothetically that an alliance gains strength and some other companies or orgs lose strength in the wake of the new alliance, "the law of the jungle"... So in this example you have lets say a 20% shift in memberships because the new alliance has such incredible offerings and appears to have wind in it's sails. So those other orgs or companies providing services who lost that 20% may find that their new reduced net revenues cannot sustain continued growth, or advertising or whatever... Now perhaps long term they just can't operate any longer and those DJs who benefitted from the service or org, lose it completely. The only choice they have left is to listen to the alliance, spend money where they recommend and think the way the alliance thinks.

American economics 101... It's a very common thing and we've all seen it happen lots of times... EXAMPLE: Huge Conglomerate Hardware Inc opens up a store which shifts shoppers from the Mom & Pop Hardware, (where they have received great service for 20 years). A year or two go by and Mom & Pop sell the store because they've lost so much business to Huge Inc.. Now the rest of the hardware shoppers have no choice. They have to go to the big store with the big lines, terrible service, unkowledgeable staff, etc. Now everyone is a captive audience. Huge Hardware Inc can raise it's prices, or stop offering your favorite brand of roofing nails, and nobody can do squat about it. If they focus their marketing efforts hard enough they could probably get everyone in town to paint their house pink, or switch to glue instead of nails, because their experts say it will benefit you. Not knowing any better because you're a captive audience you paint your house pink and glue your shingles on. Kind of like when Bush beat his war drums and cried WOMD in Iraq... How are we to know? The majority of the American Public is a captive audience We ONLY KNOW WHAT THEY TELL US... Lets go to war! Some call it "Dumming The Masses" and I believe this is the kind of "tunnel vision" which someone referred to earlier.

Granted the above example is just a dramatic illustration, but sometimes it's best to check things out a little bit. You know... Ask questions, get the facts... That's what I like about Jim, he's not afraid to ask the tough questions.

[DJBob]

IMO, these emerging "alliances" very closely resemble the Pepsi-Coke turf wars that take place. Both of them pay big bucks to have exclusive rights to events, venues, etc, and if Coke has the rights to something, there better not be anything Pepsi or Pepsi related within eyesight. The reverse is true, also.

Will it get to the point where if you are in a NAME chapter, you cannot go to the ADJA conventions, buy gear endorsed by ADJA, or socialize with ADJA members? (or vice-versa).

This will benefit no-one, and will only lessen our professional image. I want no part of it. If it gets to the point of "us or them" I will quit both.