What is a bottom feeder?

[DJMC]

Originally posted by Steve Miller@May 12 2005, 08:55 PM
Jim,

Why did you consider him a bottom feeder?

It sounds to me like he was doing just fine for himself. In one day he booked $11,700 worth of weddings, how many did you book that day? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

As I said in my first post on this subject.........................


"Term usually used to describe someone in the business who is taking in more business than the person using the term."

Steve,

In Maine (which is a very rural state) it is not uncommon to have to drive 5 hours (roundtrip) to/from an event.

Pat was charging $300 for 8 hours, plus 4 hours average drive time plus setup and teardown (let's say 2 hours for argument sake). Factor in phone calls and/ or meetings (2 hours). Now we're up to 16 hours for a measly $300.

In Maine, your average heating bill for 7 months of the year is around $300.

Methinks Pat must have gotten wiser to the math: $18 per hour won't cut it when you have to pay for wear and tear on equipment, replacement of your van/transportation, and heating your home during the long cold Maine winters.

Factor in the very short "peak season" for Maine weddings (late May thru early September) and you can see how $11,000 won't go very far when you have to pay $2000 to heat your home every year!!!

[djdonny]

Matt,

I understand where you're coming from, and agree that $300 per gig is a very low price, considering the time spent. However, with all due respect, the cost of heating your home is not related to how many hours you spend working -- it's a fixed expense. So, whether he does 13 gigs at $300 each, or 3 gigs at $1300 each, his profit remains the same. If it's all he does, perhaps he enjoys and is not overwhelmed by the time spent.

Yes, of course there are the variable expenses that are directly related to the number of jobs -- wear and tear, transportation, music purchases. But it is conceivable that this may be offset by the fact that, doing many more gigs, and charging a much lower price, he may get many more gigs without any advertising than the higher-priced DJ (talents being equal) who simply isn't seen by as many people and may not have as many satisfied clients each year who can recommend him.

Just offering another slant.

Donny

[Jim Casey]

Originally posted by Steve Miller@May 13 2005, 12:55 AM
Jim,

Why did you consider him a bottom feeder?

It sounds to me like he was doing just fine for himself. In one day he booked $11,700 worth of weddings, how many did you book that day? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

As I said in my first post on this subject.........................


"Term usually used to describe someone in the business who is taking in more business than the person using the term."

Steve...

He booked $3900 worth of weddings... 13 weddings at $300 apiece

Extrapolating the hours involved...

We will do it at 8 hours planning and perfomance together for each gig (knowing that most weddings do not last 8 hours)

300 / 8 is about $37.50 per hour

BEFORE taxes...BEFORE gas...BEFORE music expenses...BEFORE equipment expenses

See where I am getting at.

He was making pocket change doing something I know he loves.

Now with a bit of education, he is making decent money as a part-time DJ, in a great network of Djs here in Maine, and still loves what he does...and spends as much if not more time with his family while making more.

Matt...

Most of Pat's wedding sI believe are within 30 minutes of his home. And...trust me when I say $700 to heat a home for the winter here would be low. It is about double that. My last fill was $355.

And...

Our wedding season is early May until late October.

[Pat Couture]

Hi Guys,

Yes, I was at $300 at the bridal show (my first and only show to date). I booked 13 weddings as a result of that show. Obviously, it was my busiest season ever. It was at this show I learned some about my market.

I have crept up some each year, with my current rate is anywhere from 600 - 750, depending on my mood, location, and desire to book the date.

My average travel time to events is 1-2 hours. This year is first year I have several events here in Augusta (15 minutes from where I live). I don't know why, and I am not complaining.

For the record, DJing is not my sole source of income. I have treated it (from a money standpoint) as a hobby for years. Professionalism, ethics, and respect for the clients has always been important to me, regardless of the $$ coming in. I am lucky to be VERY successful in my first love - computer programming. Through MDJN, I have learned more about the market. I am not the highest priced DJ in the area, but not the lowest either.

In my opinion, there s a lot of room for the DJs who are willing to charge the "bottom feeder" rate. Their services are typically in line with the price. I have an associate at my day job who is in this market. I have approached him about joining NAME, and possibly our network (after explaining the requirements). His take on it is if he's booked, fine; if not, he plays golf. Who am I to condemn him for the decisions he makes about his business. If he's happy and his clients are happy, who cares???? He reminds me of where I was 5-6 years ago. If he wants to pursue the bigger money (and he knows it's out there), it's his choice.

Also, my market contains a LOT of second (and more) marriages, and they just don't want to do the full-blown events again. It's not always just "i dont' want to pay the big money, I just can't afford to." (These are the VFW pot luck dinner brides)

I guess that's all.

Pat

BTW - The 8 hour pricing was something unique I had. My thoughts (at the time) was that I wasn't comfortable with OT pricing. My contract stated that the OT rate was "subject to negotiation with the DJ". (Prior to the show, I was $300 for UNLIMITED time) (Jim Casey cringes - LOL) - Of course they RARELY went over 5. But, it put the client's mind at ease that I wasn't going to shut down when the party was just getting cranked up. My philosophy and confidence in OT prices has changed since then. I have booked a wedding for this fall for $1000 (750 + 2 hours overtime).

[Jim Casey]

WOW!!!

Pat...
Let me ask you honestly. Could you ever imagine doing a wedding for $1000 just a couple of years ago?

It is simply amazing what a little knowledge will do for a business.

That is what sparked my rise in pricing from $400-450 in 2001 to $1099-2199 now (Yes I have a $2199 wedding booked this year)

[Steve Miller]

Jim,

I have had weddings booked between $600 and $5000 before $600 is my base rate, travel, multiple hand holding meetings, large amounts of gear, light and other factors can run the price into the $1000 plus range.

Had a $5000 wedding booked a few years ago but the mother of the bride (and she was the person who hired me and paid me a $500 retainer) died in an auto accident shortly after hiring me. I found out about her death after weeks of trying to call her until one day her daughter answered the phone and explained what had happened. She had never bothered to contact me about her mothers death or the postponement of the wedding. The wedding was in Chicago I met the doctor in Williamsburg VA. while she was at a seminar.

But money is just a number and not an indication of a bottom feeder, in my mind a bottom feeder is not based on the money charged but the quality of the performance. To be honest I have seen some very expensive DJ's who were extreemly lousy at Djing.

[Wolfie]

Originally posted by Steve Miller@May 14 2005, 11:24 AM
But money is just a number and not an indication of a bottom feeder, in my mind a bottom feeder is not based on the money charged but the quality of the performance. To be honest I have seen some very expensive DJ's who were extremely lousy at Djing.

Thanks, Steve. It's about time someone said it. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

[Steve Miller]

The world we live in is a lot smaller than some of us think.

With the advent of the internet and chat/message boards it became a lot smaller. With boards such as the KNOT etc. the people in the busness calling you a bottom feeder can indeed affect your business. Just one or two people repeating on a board such as the Knot what another DJ (who has never seen you perform) calling you a Bottom feeder can spread quickly and it can be detrimental to your business.

While it is correct that it may not change the opinions of those that have seen you perform it can certainly affect those in your area that have not.

The term bottom feeder should only be used if you know for a fact that someone doesn't have any business being in the DJ field. Frankly I don't think it should ever be used, there are much better terms that can be used to describe someone who shouldn't be in the business such as "wannabe".

[Free DJ America]

:idea I think the term "Bottom Feeder" is a negative one which reflects a distastefull attitude by a minority of DJs who are, (based on my interpretation), upset somehow that there are competitve DJ companies willing to do the same job for less. While these DJs probably have solid reasons for their nickname and testimonials to back it up, I believe it can provide fuel for more negative attitudes from DJs who may not have a personal issue with this. In other words the whole opinion and attitude which gravitates towards "Bottom Feeder" can be a cancer to the industry, especially when the term is splashed around without any definitive justification. I myself was guilty of this in an email I sent out and was swiftly corrected by a concerned member and rightly so. I've given the issue some thought and here's what I came up with:

Every industry including ours, is made leaner and more efficient because of competition. When faced with competition prices drop, and sometimes quality goes up. Sweeping trends of price reduction can lead to a lower typical price but eventually flatten out and the curve goes upward when low prices create a lack of revenue for providers which leads to a lack of customer service or a lower quality service, which is something consumers will not tolerate. Then the prices start to go back up, until they reach a point that the provider can justly service the client with both a good product and good service while maintaining a required revenue stream. It's a compromise.

I represent thousands of DJs and thousands of party planning clients from all walks of life in all areas of the country. I encourage anyone with a superior service to charge what the market will bear. There are clients who are willing to pay more to get more. In the same breath, the lower priced DJs offer services to those who could not otherwise afford mobile entertainment... i.e.; Sally Jo Smith who wants to have a coming home party for her 1 legged Iraqi Freedom Vet brother might only have $200 to spend. If there's a DJ willing to do the party, it could make the difference between a nice celebration and a so so get-together. Mr and Mrs IvyLeague's 350+ guest wedding reception will benefit from the services of a highly trained, experienced and equipped Wedding DJ for $1500... I think it all comes out in the wash. Lets stop with the name calling!

[Cap]

Name calling is judgmental. All the prophets, soothsayers, and higher thinkers warn their followers about the dangers to spirit and soul of being judgmental, name calling being part and parcel of that process. So hurtful names should be avoided as recommended by civilized precepts (politics excluded).

The thinking in America has always been one of intrigue and competitiveness. Our Constitutional guarantee allows us to do what ever takes to bury our competition but must be smiling and shaking their hand while doing so. Now that's the American way.

The fact that a DJ is willing to charge less than what a client would have to pay to rent equipment, transport it, set it up, then operate it, then break and down and take it away, is no bottom-feeder. They're egotistical fools thinking they have a special talent and are operating a train wreck not a business! They are to be felt sorry for, not chastised.