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Old 04-11-2005, 11:52 PM
djdonny djdonny is offline
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This is a continuation from another thread...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>QUOTE:
I will only offer what I do at a price I feel I am worth.

I'm not sure if that's the message Mark intends with regards the worth movement (I've never heard him), but I'm guessing he'd mean that you should improve your product so as to be able to increase what your CLIENTS believe you're worth (big difference in my mind).

Successful businesses don't price their products at what THEY feel they are worth, but by calculating a price that they feel will bring in the greatest profit. They compare their product to others in their market and try to calculate, at each price interval, how many products they think they can sell, subtract costs (including time), and estimate a profit. Then they can nudge the prices and see how the market reacts -- do I make more by lowering the price or by raising it? by improving the product's ingredients or by using cheaper materials?

Too many big-ego DJs have taken the worth movement to mean charge what THEY think they are worth, and have overpriced themselves out of business. A better question is to consider how much the PUBLIC thinks you are worth, so as to gauge how to best price yourself to make the most profit in your market.

-----------------------------------------------

QUOTE:
Too many big-ego DJs have taken the worth movement to mean charge what THEY think they are worth, and have overpriced themselves out of business.

A rather bold statement to be made that begs corroboration. Knowing many of the national "Worthers", some have gone on to new businesses, some have established new parallel ventures, but none have priced themselves into employment to my knowledge.

Could you name please one? Two? Any?

What was their price point at the time of their demise? Or, was it their product value versus fee structure that was faulty? Or was it their deficiency in business ownership?

QUOTE:
I'm not sure if that's the message Mark intends with regards the worth movement (I've never heard him), but I'm guessing he'd mean that you should improve your product so as to be able to increase what your CLIENTS believe you're worth (big difference in my mind).

If you've never heard him, how do you know what his intent is (or was)?

[/b][/quote]

Cap,

You're missing my point (and getting a little too quick on the defensive). I'm not referring to any particular DJs, but simply the effect that all this discussion about raising prices because of one's self-worth has had on the industry. If DJs are truly worth what they believe they are, in the eyes of their MARKET, then they should certainly go ahead and charge more. Jim here's a good example -- he raised his prices and made more money.

However, just from chatting with other DJs on forums, a number of DJs who may have thought they were worth more than their market can bear are often complaining that lower-priced DJs are taking all their business and their annual number of gigs have fallen. Maybe they should lower their prices slightly in order to make the amount of annual profit they want. But all this negative talk about low-ballers have scared them into thinking they're selling out the industry by pricing themselves appropriately for their level of skill and expertise.

As I mentioned, I don't know what Mark's intent was. Maybe he didn't mean what I guessed he did. Here's my philosophy then (and if it matches Mark's, so be it, I was just giving hime credit in case credit was due):

Revenue = gigs x price. If you raise your prices simply because others in the industry are saying that DJs are inherently "worth" it, and find your revenue drops like a rock because you're not booking gigs, it's OK to bring your prices back down. In the opinion of your market, you may not yet be worth what you think you're worth, or what others are telling you you're worth.

(Of course, I realize that if revenue just drops a little but you're doing a lot less gigs, this may be a gain for your business, but I'm just simplifying the discussion by leaving out the small nuances.)

On the other hand, if you truly can convince potential CLIENTS in your market that you are "worth" a higher price, and by raising your prices find that the market can support you, then more power to you! How can this be done? You can improve your own skills, gain more experience, give a better sales pitch, provide better service, have charisma and good looks, or hypnotise your clients for all I care. But "worth" needs to be in the eyes of the beholder.

It's like the antique shows. An appraiser could tell you that your 18th century salt shaker is worth a million dollars, and you could truly believe your salt shaker is worth it, but if nobody is willing to buy it at that price, it's not worth that price.
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Old 04-12-2005, 12:35 AM
djron1 djron1 is offline
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Good points djdonny. I feel that I need to get what I am worth but that need is also for what I'm putting out. It's not just the time but the expenses that also must play a factor in pricing. I wonder if these lower priced dj's have insurance? Do they subscribe to a music service on a regular basis?

Other yearly cost factor I didn't have when I was a lower priced dj include; advertising, new equipment upgrade, association fees, website fees, clean underwear, business fees, etc. I would be amazed if these guys are paying alot of these yearly costs. It is their choice as it was mine to do these things. These underlying costs are things people don't look at when they compare companies nor should they. A bride doesn't care if it cost me more for expenses than the lower price guy. She just wants to know what can I do that he can't.

I was once one of those guys who thought; I don't see what these higher priced dj can do that I can't until I went fulltime and started paying bills.

Yesterday, a bride chose me over another dj becaue I had a website and was easy to contact (other reasons of course). Plus I was cheaper in the long run. Yet I lost a bride because she found a couple of dj's in the $300 -$500 range. I thinks thats great for her. There's a lot of work out there for everyone at every price range with various skills.

It's hard for me to figure out what is a good price range for what I am worth. The deciding factor for me was when I would tell brides my price (last year's price) and most of them said, is that all?

I enjoy giving input in these threads in the hopes of gaining more knowledge and not to argue with people. I only explain what I do with the hope of getting constuctive input I can use.

Thanks
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Old 04-12-2005, 02:01 AM
DJMC DJMC is offline
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I think the worth movement was the best thing that ever happened to this industry.

Why? because a large number of DJs became convinced they were "worth" more than they really are, and consequently they're now way overpriced compared to the market.

Simply put, there are NOT enough Achievers (top-tier brides) to support a dozen premium or "Premier" type DJ services.

Whatever you call 'em, these Worthers have made it possible for the "middlefeeders" like myself to raise their rates to higher levels.

I'm averaging close to $900 per event (April 1 thru October 31) where a few short years ago I was around $500.

Not only that, I'm working smarter: meeting with fewer clients because the ONLINE planner (WeDJ Gigbuilder) is so efficient and time-saving.

I price events for "Coverage" (setup + teardown + playing time + meetings, if any) so I can explain the $1088 package as 9 or 10 hours of coverage (even though its only 6 or 7 hours of playing time).

The Worth Movement, for me, was a way to raise rates while at the same time I'm lowering my costs of doing business. While at the same time improving the overall performance quality.

I give the Worthers two big THUMBS UP!!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 04-12-2005, 01:45 PM
djron1 djron1 is offline
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Now that's what I'm talking about DJMC. I like those points and think I'll use them in some of my meetings. Thanks for the info. I'm in about the same price range now and this helps explain it to the client a little better.
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Old 04-12-2005, 06:10 PM
Cap Cap is offline
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DJMC: And there part of it is. The biggest flaw in the worth movement in a nut shell.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Whatever you call 'em, these Worthers have made it possible for the "middlefeeders" like myself to raise their rates to higher levels.[/b][/quote]

Thoughtless chest beating. Clueless business sense. Giving away the candy store to the unimaginative, leading to off-sells and excuses. Your honesty about raising your rates under the umbrellas of others who are taking the gamble and risk to better their lives is refreshing.

Exposing secrets, tips, techniques and strategies. Educating clients and telling everybody else in the universe (especially in the industry) precisely how? HUGE mistake.

They (those who saw and grasped the possibilities) are now realizing their error. It's evident in the threads. The smart ones are going underground, selectively sharing the new strategies to counter the plagiarizers. The successful, formerly accused of and feeling ashamed being called the elite are now turning to grasping it, embracing it. Instead of the tail between the legs, use it to complete advantage. Be elite and reap the financial rewards.

Then what, folks? How will the off-sells play out if the knowledge well of information being used dries up?

No problem. Everyone will survive. This is one of those occupations where mediocrity can and does endure any test. Thank goodness, it's always the client's decision that counts, not another DJs.

djDonny: No, not defensive. I have nothing to defend. Your statements were made and I simply asked for specifics in both cases. Is it defensive to ask for specific examples? If so, I guess I'm guilty.
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Old 04-12-2005, 06:42 PM
djdonny djdonny is offline
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> I think the worth movement was the best thing that ever happened to this industry.

Why? because a large number of DJs became convinced they were "worth" more than they really are, and consequently they're now way overpriced compared to the market.

Simply put, there are NOT enough Achievers (top-tier brides) to support a dozen premium or "Premier" type DJ services.

Whatever you call 'em, these Worthers have made it possible for the "middlefeeders" like myself to raise their rates to higher levels.[/b][/quote]

Excellent point, Matt. I hadn't thought of it that way.
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Old 04-12-2005, 06:45 PM
Cap Cap is offline
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Here's what may have happened.

The message. Get what your worth. Nothing more or less than what you're worth.

Ohhhhh Boy! More money!!

How? Raise industry awareness. Raise public consciousness. Make DJing a legitimate profession. The ultimate goal to strive for? Full-time and financially stable.

"How's $1,200 bucks a show work? Wouldn't you want to strive to reach that? Maybe more? Not by doing what you're doing now. Get better. Together, we can raise the bar!" (flags waving, cheering volume overwhelming, enthusiastic volunteers spring up from everywhere).

"Come on boys (and gals), over the top and let's kick some butt."

Ooops.

The idea, the message, was allowed to degenerate from a potentially great ideal, much like the thought of democracy must've felt to the disenfranchised, to thousands of attempts to find the silver bullet to success, the ultimate marketing strategy, the keys to the Pearly Gates, in a group therapy format being totally televised on the Public Access channel.

The bar has been leveled, but not raised.

The ideal remains, getting there has selectively changed.
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Old 04-12-2005, 08:46 PM
Mark Beecher Mark Beecher is offline
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Cap you continue to amuse and intrigue me.
I want to remind everyone that most DJs have never heard of the "Worth" movement and have never visited a DJ chat room. I base this on trying to recruit for a local chapter of the ADJA and the 5 guys I represent. To be honest (selfish motivation at work), I'm not sure if I want them to hear about either......either.

Food for thought. When I first started djing 20 years ago my rent was $435 a month. Now my mortgage is $1.300. My car payment was $199.00 a month, now it's $459.00.
My heating bill averaged $60.00 a month. Now it's more like $130.00.
I could go on and on. Yes my lifestyle has improved (as has my performance with experience) but I wonder if the worth movement was just the fart that gave us the sense to meet inflation. Nothing else.
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Old 04-12-2005, 08:55 PM
Mark Beecher Mark Beecher is offline
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And those who feel they are benefiting from the "worth movement?" could be; but the DJ industry is a VERY young one. I think those seeing a nice increase in their rates are experiencing the benefit of time in their practice as much as anything else.

Like fine wine, the good stuff not only improves with age, but it costs more too.
Wine appreciation in the United States is a relatively new phenomenon. Much like the profession of DJism.
You would have been hard pressed to find a bottle of wine over $10.00 in a liquor store 20 years ago....
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Old 04-12-2005, 09:12 PM
djdonny djdonny is offline
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Look at that, food for thought and fine wine in consecutive posts!
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