Email Alan from The Knot

[Jim Casey]

*** I am posting this email that was Cc'd to me so that the Community is aware of Mr. Berg's position ***

This is the email address to the VP of Sales and Marketing that Bruce has been speaking with aberg@theknot.com

I do ask that you keep your emails to him professional and on-point as I have already used up the uprofessional behvaior by bringing this to their attention.

Bruce,
I appreciate you bringing this to me, and The Knot appreciates your
support.

What I'm curious is how this poster feels that it's OK to trash The Knot
on your boards, without moderation, but it's not ok that our site can be
called "this cesspool that is The Knot" and he thinks that's OK.

This kind of talk is against the rules on our boards. Not only is it a
personal affront, but the tone and language would not be tolerated by the
other brides. They would complain to us about it, and we would take it
down.

Here are 3 of our Community Rules that he would have broken:
* No vulgar language nor racially, ethnically or otherwise, objectionable
language.
* No harassing, intimidating, stalking, or threatening other community
members.
* No libelous or defamatory comments

If this poster has an issue with us, he should bring it to us, and not try
to rally a posse. This is the same as we encourage our brides to take
their specific complaints to the vendors, and not air them on the boards:

"...Please keep in mind that The Knot Message Boards are not to be used
for posting complaints and defamatory comments about vendors. Because The Knot has no way of determining whether claims are valid, all defamatory posts
are subject to removal. We are concerned that you be treated fairly and that
other brides are warned of any bad apples in this business, and with that
said here is our advice: We encourage you first to contact the vendor
directly..."

I think what your poster doesn't realize is that our boards get over 1
millions posts each month, which could not possibly be monitored. It would
take an additional 250 people to monitor that many posts. That would mean
doubling our staff. Do your members want to pay all of those salaries in
increased rates? I don't think so.

Today alone, as of 9:45pm, our boards have had over 46,000 posts. That is
impossible to monitor. Amazingly, less than 2% of our 2.5 million unique
visitors each month post anything on the boards. It's a relatively small
group of vocal brides. Yes, more read the posts, but with this many not
even the brides read them all. It's impossible to with that many flying by.

They simply hone in on the ones where they are interested in the topic, and
ignore the others.

Any vendor or bride that wishes to tell us about a suspicious post should
email feedback@theknot.com . We investigate ALL reported posts, and we
usually lean in favor of the vendor and take them down since they cannot
post for themselves. All posts are archived after 2 months so they can't
be seen anymore. Vendors can send us a reply that we can post for them.

"...The use of The Knot message boards, wedding web pages, and chat room
is at your own risk, and we are not responsible for the content and conduct
you may encounter. Messages posted on The Knot Message Boards by members do not reflect the opinions of The Knot Inc. We reserve the right to remove any
material from the message boards and wedding web pages at any time. We
also reserve the right to remove you from the chat room, delete your Knot membership, or at our discretion to inform your Internet service provider
if you violate any of these rules..."

Bruce, I'm curious about some of his comments:
"NAME should sever ALL ties with The Knot immediately until they can come
up with a system in their Community that is moderated, monitored, and taken care of. As you will see in one of the "Knot" threads, this obviously is KNOT taking place."

Are your boards monitored? Does this violate your rules? Was this post
left up?

"Any and all Disc Jockey communitiy bulletin boards should band together
to fight this cesspool that is The Knot. I don't know if any have a financial
relationship with The Knot but as DJs we should demand that ANY relationship
stops immediately."

Why? Does he have any idea what our relationship is? Is this person an
advertiser? Have they talked to someone at The Knot about their concerns?

It's a cheap shot to take this to your boards without taking it to us
first.

"That is only the beginning. Any ideas can be posted in either of the two
threads that are Knot related:"

It's exactly this kind of inciting to riot that gives all message boards a
bad name. If they are upset that people can pose as fake brides and talk
about themselves, how does he suggest that we stop it? Couldn't someone
pose as a DJ and post on your boards? Couldn't an equipment manufacturer pose
as a DJ and tell everyone how great his Speakers are? Of course. Moderation
won't stop the fake brides, because if they are posing as a bride, how are
we to tell the real bride, who may be a salesperson by trade, from a fake
bride, who works for a vendor. They both can sound salesy, but that
doesn't mean it's a fake bride. We have put steps in place to reduce the number of
fake posters, but they will always find a way around it. By the way, our
rules are very similar to WeddingChannel's rules. Is this person going to
trash them too?

Thanks, again for bringing this to me. I would welcome the opportunity to
have a calm, intelligent conversation with this person. If all they want
to do is use this same tone, and language, then I'm not interested. Thanks,

[Jim Casey]

My response to Mr. Berg:

Good afternoon Mr. Berg,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to some of mine (and many DJ professionals) concerns about The Knot and in particular your Community Forums.

You may not like the method I used to get your attention, but unfortunately your organization has swept this issue under the rug for way too long and it is time for some changes.

I have been a very vocal critic of your Community Forums for almost two years since an attempted defaming by three of your members from the state of Maine. My name was dragged through the mud there and after several attempts of emailing The Knot staff about the issue without a response, I felt I needed to respond myself against your TOS. The issue remained unresolved for several weeks. I therefore took to starting threads to correct a lot of misinformation about the DJ industry in general. After many complaints (this took over a month), The Knot finally removed my account.

I realize that you have many millions of posts every month but it does not excuse your company's responsibility to actually monitor what goes on in your Forums.

Here is an example...actually TEN from the Connecticut Board:

This is supposed to be a helpful Community Forum???

http://www.theknot.com/co_mbmaink2kp...00721999056144

http://www.theknot.com/co_mbmaink2kp...00713066054564

http://www.theknot.com/co_mbmaink2kp...00621305055044

http://www.theknot.com/co_mbmaink2kp...00784398233124

http://www.theknot.com/co_mbmaink2kp...00751089058560

http://www.theknot.com/co_mbmaink2kp...00725866037140

http://www.theknot.com/co_mbmaink2kp...00724401056188

http://www.theknot.com/co_mbmaink2kp...00723854234868

http://www.theknot.com/co_mbmaink2kp...00720814017796

http://www.theknot.com/co_mbmaink2kp...00720094017004

That's just through five minutes of research on the Connecticut board...

I have no beef with the Wedding Channel nor Ultimate Wedding because they already do what you should be doing, moderating their Forums. They do this with volunteers. I dare say Ultimate Wedding has as many people posting there as The Knot.

While the Local Wedding Talk Forums may be small in nature, they still can cause a great deal of harm to reputations that have been built up for as many as 10, 20, even 30 or more years.

I think you would have people line out the door to volunteer to moderate your Forums so that they are fair to all involved. I have no problem with a bride's honest opinion if it is based on fact.

I own the Community Forum and am the person that wrote the thread that has cause the controversey. It is NOT affiliated with NAME in any way. I myself am only a member of NAME who is very frustrated witht he lack of progress we see with the Community Forums at The Knot. That post which is on several other DJ Community Forums is NOT a violation of the TOS at the various locations because it is based on fact. As far as I am aware, no one has edited the post whatsoever. It may have been a bit inflammatory, but it was meant to get your attention in a hurry.

As for manufacturers posing as DJs, we are a small enough industry where professional Djs work for the manufacturers themselves. All have something to offer and we welcome it.

There is an undercurrent of Wedding Professionals (We are NOT vendors that sell gum or candy or soda by the way) who are tired of getting what have been empty promises from The Knot over the years. This includes the promises made at the 2003 NAME DJ convention that Carley Rooney was the Keynote speaker at.

I am sure you will be sent many more emails in the upcoming days about this issue. Again thank you for listening. I look forward to your response.


--
Jim Casey
Jim Casey's DJ Services
www.djmaine.com

"Creating Fun, Unique, and Memorable Events"

Call Toll-Free (877) DJ-MAINE

[Wolfie]

Jim,

Just my humble opinion here:

For the record, if and when TheKnot.com is to be contacted, said contact shall be made via the USODJA Public Relations Director at the behest of the board of directors. Queries from individual brides/clients are handled by the Membership Director.

I have read this thread through in entirety. You know me... I have a habit of reading between the lines. I must say I am disappointed with the correspondence to Mr. Berg.

I have a great respect for you and Bruce so I will speak from the heart: You guys are practicing what is often called "gunboat diplomacy". This is the worst thing you can do. You have succeeded in putting Mr. Berg on the defensive, thus alienating any hopes of being taken seriously.

Roasting Mr. Berg and his online community with slurs and accusations can only make yourselves and the DJ industry look bad. Remember, we all wish to be viewed in a positive light. The derogatory comments I read here serve to remind us all of the reason vendors are restricted from posting at TheKnot. They already see us as a bunch of uncontrolled wildcatters. The aforementioned comments serve to confirm this view of the industry.

Gentlemen, it is high time for those who wish to speak for this industry to grow up and learn to converse in a courteous, professional manner. I am willing to wager that you do not converse with your clientele and guests in such a derogatory manner. You gripe about the ways in which brides at TheKnot treat you, yet you seem to have no qualms with responding in a like manner. What's wrong with this picture?

The way people see you is the way they will treat you. If you present yourself as a professional business you will be treated as a professional business. Likewise, if you present yourself as a renegade, expect to be treated like a renegade.

In summary, I would humbly suggest that some diplomatic and professional comments be made in future correspondence with Mr. Berg.

Take it or leave it, these are just my personal thoughts on the matter.

[Jim Casey]

Wolfie,
I am going to say what I have said to others. Sometimes you have to use unorthodox or in my case rude ways to get your message noticed.

Am I proud that this is the way I had to use to get their attention, no. After many failed previous attempt to actually get something constructive done, I felt I had no alternative. I used an attention grabber. And I didn't do this as a NAME member, nor a USODJA member, I did it as a wedding professional getting sick of being told to get bent becuase I don't like having my reputation dragged through the mud.

Diplomacy only goes so far in this world. Sometimes you have to be more drastic to get results.

[Wolfie]

Jim,

I can understand your fustration. I think most of us in this crazy biz can relate.

I am only trying to point out that your correspondence with Mr. Berg could have been done without the derogatory comments and bullying that resulted in putting him on the defensive.

You got "their" attention, all right. I've spent the better part of my weekend time doing damage control as a result of this. I come home from a bridal expo on Sunday evening and have to pick it up again. I am trying to present this industry in a positive light to the rest of the online community. We complain that we aren't being taken seriously by brides, yet we slam their online forums. Again I ask: what's wrong with this picture?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Sometimes you have to use unorthodox or in my case rude ways to get your message noticed.[/b][/quote]
And in doing so, you remove any hope of being taken seriously. No one likes a bully. Do you really believe that the world's most popular bride-related website will take you seriously now?

My friend, diplomacy has much more strength than many people may see at first glance. When you present yourself and your business as professional, you have established your credentials and set the stage for a productive dialogue. On the other hand, shouting and using slurs to convey one's point tend to demonstrate to the other that one is desparate and has run out of ideas.

Have you run out of ideas? As a fellow business owner, I hope your answer is no.

Jim, I have worked in industrial maintenance for the better part of my life. That's over 25 years now. I pulled four years in the Navy before that. I don't like playing politics any more than the next person but I know the protocol well. I was handling crises when many of these people were still raising their hands for permission to go to the restroom. My experience tells me to listen first and learn. Then I ask questions.

The Knot is an online message board. It doesn't make or break anyone's business. If you feel that comments posted on The Knot are harming your business, perhaps it's time to ask yourself who is running your business -- you or some anonymous poster at The Knot.

We are responsible for the success or failure of our businesses, not people who post at The Knot.

If you still believe that confrontation is preferrable to conversation, that is your choice to make. All I am saying is you will not be taken seriously if you shoot from the hip.

I hope it helps. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

[Jim Casey]

Again Wolfie, I'm not sure you understand.

The Knot truthfully does not care about Disc Jockeys or other wedding professionals for the most part.

They care about the bottom line. Their "You need Us" attitude when they make a sales call always proves that.

There are certain times when you have to make a stand. You stand down and they will contnue to roll all over you and I for one am not about to accept it again.

You may be hearing about a renewed attempt at a class action lawsuit against The Knot. This time, there is a much better chance becuase of some behind the scenes mistakes being made by The Knot.

[Rob Peters]

Gee Jim....Don't Wolfies thoughts and words sound familar ???

Guess Knot!

[Wolfie]

Cheers, Jim.

There are many things I don't understand. Some are due to plain old ignorance, others are due to plain old age. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] One thing I understand: Courtesy and good manners never go out of style. On the other side of the coin, I understand the old adage that one is not a doormat until he lies down. So, you see I do understand your concerns. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

Old Wolfie is a scrapper from 'way back. I am older and wiser now. If someone punches me in the nose I don't just up and punch him back. I don't get angry and react. I let it wait 'til the heat is down and get even in other ways. It's the old brains over brawn routine. Not a part of my persona I am proud of but it's there. You see, I use the system first. If the system fails, I use my own system. The ticket is to act, not react.

I agree that The Knot doesn't have the best interests of the DJ industry in mind. It's a bride forum. They're not in business to promote DJ companies. I'm gonna guess that most DJ forums don't have the best interests of brides in mind, either.

We're all interested in the bottom line... that's why we're here. The purpose of any business, The Knot included is to make money.

I also agree there are times when one has to take a stand... but only after other methods have failed. My dissatisfaction was directed toward the "cesspool" type of comments made, not the reason for making them. If you feel that your business has been adversely affected by The Knot, you are within your right to speak up. I only suggest that it be done in a professional manner so as to preserve your credibility. Please remember: your comments are documented as well, for good or for bad.

As far as a class-action suit goes, I wish you luck. As plaintiffs, you will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was negligent. I do not know if there is a precedent for this type of case but if there is not, making one may become a long, expensive siege. I'm not trying to discourage you - if you feel your business has been done harm you should try to get it set to rights.

I wish you the best, my friend. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

[Johnny Dee]

Wow!...I have to agree with Jim on this.

If you are harming my family, my business etc., you are going to have to deal with me in your face. I grew up in the Bronx, NY and that's how we handled it. If that didn't work...it's time to send Vito with the baseball bat back out again...LOL

(Actually, the more I think about it...at my age I would probably be safer sending Vito out first...LOL)

[Steve Miller]

Fred,

I am going to have to agree with the others here as well.

Sometimes if the wood is extreemly hard to drive the nail home takes a sledge hammer.

I stopped visiting the KNOT long ago because it is a cesspool as far as vendors are concerned. I have read threads where a vendor is being thrashed and when said vendor tries to defend himself his/her response is deleted and the bashing is left up and continues.

This flies in the face of what Mr. Berg has stated in his response. If the moderators on the forum have the time to delete vendor responses to an attack, one would certainly think they would would have also had the time to delete the attacks as well.

It stands to reason that if the forum (regardless of it being a brides forum) is going to allow members to post about the performance of vendors (good or bad) that the said vendors should by all rights be allowed to post responses to those threads.

It appears that Mr. Berg doesn't feel the same way though (except in isolated cases) so it is certainly fair for vendors to call for a boycott of the site in response to Mr. Berg.

On some of the DJ sites we know Product manufacturers and DJ's with something to sell are given free rein and their products are not allowed to be honestly reveiwed, or questioned. In the case of the Knot the vendors being attacked are not allowed to respond.

Personally I do not see the problem with letting a vendor respond to negative or positive post with either a response explaining what any problems may have been as well as a thank you for a job well done. Too many times I have seen the faux brides (other DJ's) on the Knot post about another DJ's service cutting it down, and the response posted is one where the DJ being bashed ask one simple question. "When did I work for you?" Only to have their response deleted from the site. This is entirely unfair to the legit vendors and the legit brides that post on the site.

It appears that Mr. Berg doesn't see it that way!